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Wednesday, October 05, 2005

Just where did the bodily raised Jesus go?

I've never though properly about this before so I'm asking an open question here and it's not baiting or anything like that. Just curious about the explanation and there's enough theology types out there to help. If Jesus was bodily raised as Wright argues where did the body go? If at the Ascension he went off to heaven where is that precisely? If Wright-type arguments are made historically he would have to have gone somewhere like heaven presumably. This raises the next point: if this is historically accurate where is this place where the bodily raised Jesus went and could be be seen with a powerful telescope? And so on and so on. Now I am aware that the more Bultmannian minded scholar has no problems here and I suspect I may have missed the point entirely but if the argument of bodily resurrection is going to be made historically then what about part 2 as it were?


Blogger Ben Myers said...

I suppose the first and most basic question is: when we say his "body" was raised, are we talking about a σῶμα ψυχικόν or a σῶμα πνευματικόν?

I personally believe in a "bodily" resurrection, but I think "body" should be understood according to 1 Cor. 15. And it seems to me that this kind of "body" is not something that can be seen through a telescope (even if it did literally "ascend" up to another spatial location).

It seems to me that the important emphasis in Paul's account of the σῶμα πνευματικόν is that this "body" is something qualitatively different (in spite of a mysterious continuity of identity) from what we usually mean by "body". And so maybe the metaphorical depiction of a bodily "ascension" is appropriate for just this reason: it conveys the unfathomable otherness of this "body", and the fact that the proper locus of this body is with God.

October 05, 2005

Anonymous Christopher Shell said...

The earliest Christians had only one answer - the ascension: multiply attested in Romans 10, John 20, Ephesians 4, Luke-Acts of course, 1 Tim. 3 - not to mention the frequent use of Ps. 110.1, the most-quoted OT verse in the NT. Not to mention that the prevailing worldview would naturally have deduced this conclusion.
It is probably because this was more or less the universally held view that Luke felt free to historicise (or concretise) the kerygma. That and his Elijah-Elisha typology.
Ephesians 4: he ascended in order to fill all things. 'Where is he now?' could therefore also (and perhaps more understandably) be answered in terms of the Holy Spirit.
Im not sure Wright is avoiding the question, since he assumes (on the basis of walking through walls etc) a different kind of body for which the question 'where?' does not apply - and in this he is in agreement with Ephesians 4's 'boundariless' model.

October 06, 2005

Anonymous Christopher Shell said...

A further reference is Rev. 12.5.

October 06, 2005

Blogger Geoff Hudson said...

Resurrection was a later idea. 1 Cor 15 was originally about the condemnation or glorification of risen spirits. It was taken for granted that when a spirit left a body, the body became inanimate.

Also, the 'preaching' was originally not about raising Christ from the dead, but of God sending his Spirit from Heaven. If God had not sent his Spirit from Heaven spirits on earth could not have been purified ready for glory, that is to be in the presence of God in Heaven, and the proclamation of the Spirit would have been in vain.

15:21 - Condemnation (not death) came through a spirit (the spirit of Adam - an impure spirit of deceit was in everyone). And Glorification came through a spirit (the Spirit of God).

Thus I have 15:22 - For as IN the spirit of Adam, all are condemned, so IN the Spirit of God, all will be glorified. The key remnant word is IN. If one was IN the Spirit of God, one was purified ready for glory.

October 06, 2005

Anonymous Robert Feather said...

In The Gospel of St John there is a tradition that the body of Jesus was taken from its original place and interred somewhere else by people unconnected with the Jesus party. The two traditional places of Jesus burial were identified hundreds of years after his crucifixion and the evidence for their correctness is extremely uncertain - the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and the Garden Tomb. The answer to your question lies in my latest book "The Secret Initiation of Jesus at Qumran".

October 07, 2005

Blogger bif said...

I was just wondering if you've entertained the idea of the resurrection appearances as ASC experiences, and if so, if you thought that coming at it from that perspective 9rather than positivistic historicism) raises any issues for you on the relationship between reality (culturally loaded concept) and experience.


October 07, 2005


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