If only I had that luxury!

2006-11-12T14:10:00.000Z

You've got to stop talking to yourself James.

2006-11-11T22:22:00.000Z

You've got to stop talking to yourself James.

The name aside, that's better. If you are more sob...

2006-11-11T18:56:00.000Z

The name aside, that's better. If you are more sober like that then there's no problem. As soon as the insults, slurs, lies etc. start flying, I delete, ok?

I've never denied Christian virtues, though I think the supernatural issues is no benefit and has hindered scholarship.

I also argued that secular is one voice. The increase in women, as I mentioned, led to significant advances in various areas.

Christian beliefs do not always have to hinder but they can. Anything that smacks of explaining away is not high on the agenda. There may well be areas we are just not aware of.

The point of this is that the dominance of one group will almost inevitably exclude perspectives it doesn't like. This, obviously, includes a secular one should it dominate. I think there has been an avoidance of various big why questions to explain things as well as well as an over emphasis on the individual as the cause of all.

James:I never said supernatural explanations were ...

2006-11-11T17:24:00.000Z

James:
I never said supernatural explanations were out of bounds, just that they are very unusual ina university setting. Compare history. It is the Christian context of the disciplie that allows this, clearly.

Alex: Well, if it is a multiplicity of viewpoints that you're after, and you don't consider supernatural explanations out of bounds, then this should be one of the virtues of the Christian context of the discipline - that it allows us to explore issues that are out of bounds in the wider field of allegedly secular history.

James: I'm looking for more perspectives and more questions to be brought into the discipline, that's all.

Alex: More perspectives will be brought into the discipline if we import an actual real diversity of worldviews, not just increase the number of secular scholars. That will give us predominantly two - secular and Christian.

James: In fact Christian scholars will use it as something beneficial to Christianity (e.g. Esler). What amazes me is that you appear to assume that I don't know this. I've put it in print in detail but you are telling me I thin other wise otherwise.

Alex: So then, we all agree that Christian beliefs are no hindrance to proper social science studies currently.

James: Anyway, I wrote loads on the omission of social sciences and Marxism in the mid-C20 arguing that it was too problematical for a Christian discipline at the time but things changed in the late 60s for variou socio-political reasons. There is masses of evidence for what I argue on the omission of social sciences in the mid C20, it is not speculative, it is not quoting what you say. It has absolutely nothing to do with the models you are on about (because they weren't there!!!) You are just making things up or utterly misunderstanding.

Alex: Since the correlation between Christianity and aversion to the social science is no longer the case, I'm really not sure what the point is of your argument attempting to show this in the past. You seem to admit that it is the socio-political circumstances that are at the root of the aversion, and not Christian belief per se.

James: You are also completely missing the point of what I mean by causality. It is in the tradition of historians explaining why things happen (the big why questions as Hobsbawm put it).

Alex: The point there was that there are a multitude of reasons as to why things happen and the social sciences only describe one aspect of this (usually a general social trend, value-system, or milieu).

James: There are social reasons for the rise of secular approaches, as there are for just about any. Do you assume that I am not influenced by my context?

Alex: I don't. I assume you are, but I also assume that you make decisions based on your beliefs as well. For instance, your belief in the importance of fairness and equal representation obviously motivates (and thus has explanatory power with regards to) your stance on the issue of secularization with NT study. So the point is that there are multiple levels of description and causality as well (i.e. material causes, efficient causes, etc.), and beliefs, commitments, and even faith can easily come into play in historical accounts involving causality.

Alex Dalton

Comments on Earliest Christian History: Reception of the Berlineblau article: what should ...

If only I had that luxury!

You've got to stop talking to yourself James.

The name aside, that's better. If you are more sob...

James:I never said supernatural explanations were ...